The Great Meeting in Heaven

“When you’re in trouble, ask a question,” Roger Zener taught. Here’s a true story that shows how effective that can be in a sales interview. The principle, however, applies to almost any human interaction.

In 1986, Roger lured me out of a private practice of law in Eugene, Oregon to join him in the Advanced Marketing Department of Standard Insurance in Portland. Roger, now retired many years, was one of the great communicators of the life insurance industry. This story gives you a glimpse into his genius. I learned a lot from him. In fact, any skill I may have in communicating ideas to others I credit to his mentoring.

Okay, let’s get on with the story.

Roger and a life insurance agent walked into the private office of the owner of a well-established business. The owner was a young man in his mid to late thirties.

The business created a lot of income for him – income that was not the result of his work habits or business shrewdness. That, perhaps, explained part of his arrogance. The rest may have come because he was a 3^rd generation owner; he was the beneficiary of the sweat and tears of a couple fellows who had gone before him and blazed the trail he now enjoyed.

The first trailblazer was Grandpa.

He was a nice old man who started a modest business decades earlier. Grandpa didn’t have much education. His strength came from a burning desire to be his own boss – plus a whole lot of luck. Through his leadership, the business grew steadily.

That’s the way things happened a lot in the early part of the 20^th century. Extraordinary growth of the economy made up for many mistakes. Grandpa lived well into his eighties before moving on to his reward.

That brings us to the second fellow who played an important part in the business the current owner inherited – Dad.

Dad got into the business early. He went to a state college and took some classes he thought might help him when he took over as the owner of a successful business in their little community.

After graduation, Dad went to work in the business. He started at the bottom, learned all the ropes and gradually became a successful business leader in his own right.

By the time Grandpa was ready to hand over control, Dad knew what he was doing. The transition was actually uneventful. Grandpa was ready to step back. Dad was ready to step forward. The government hadn’t really gotten interested in estate and gift taxes so those were non-events.

Dad was able to guide the business through even greater growth. He was skilled. He had drive. He understood the importance of the business – not just for himself and his own family but also for the community.

Unfortunately, Dad made two big mistakes.

The first was that he got so wrapped up in the business that he didn’t pay much attention to the little guy who was to become the third generation owner. That would be Sonny.

Because Dad was so involved with the business, he didn’t notice that Sonny didn’t have the same drive that Dad had had. It didn’t dawn on him that Sonny was majoring in coeds (and failing) instead of business at that fancy private university.

He did notice that Sonny wasn’t spending summers working in the business, like he had done. Instead, Sonny was spending summers in Europe and Asia – broadening his understanding of people, Sonny said. Dad was sure he was broadening his understanding of something, but it didn’t appear to be anything that was going to be useful in the business. Sonny was enjoying the sun – and the women – and Dad was tracking Sonny’s whereabouts through credit card statements.

Sonny finally did graduate and entered the family business.

Dad’s second mistake – and this was a really big miss on his part – was not paying attention to those chest pains. He ignored nature’s cues that something was wrong. Shortly after Sonny’s grand entrance into the business, Dad keeled over with a massive heart attack.

As a result, Sonny quickly moved to the top – a situation Sonny certainly didn’t find too disagreeable.

Sonny enjoyed his new wealth and the attention it brought him (especially from the women who always seemed to find him). Unfortunately, some of the key people – the ones who were really behind the business’ continued success – didn’t share Sonny’s high opinion of himself. In less than a year they quit and started a competing company.

The business succession wasn’t as smooth as it had been when Dad took over. But the business did survive and grew – it was modest growth but it was growth.

In recent years Sonny has been sucking cash out of the business to keep his ex-wives at bay and to pay the expense of his various therapists. Liquidity has been tight and times have been tense.

And that’s when Roger met Sonny – yet another third generation owner of a successful family business. It was clear that Sonny wasn’t interested in talking with yet another insurance agent. In fact, the first words out of his mouth were, “I sure hope you’re not here to talk about insurance because I have absolutely no interest – or need – to talk about it.”

Roger said he calmly smiled but his heart skipped a beat or two. The thought crossed his mind that just maybe they were in trouble.

And what do you do when you’re in trouble?

You ask a question. Roger simply asked, “Is that why you think we’re here? You think we want to sell you life insurance?”

Now it was Sonny who was off balance. “Well, sure. What else would a life insurance agent want to talk about?”

Roger looked him squarely in the eye and announced, “Sonny, if that’s what you think, then you’re just plain wrong.”

“Sure. Then why are you here?” Sonny appeared to be intrigued enough to not throw them out of his office. That’s the value of asking a question, you get to continue your conversation.

Roger’s response was pure genius. How much so? Roger told me years later that what he said next was not prepared but just came him on the spur of the moment.

“Sonny, we’re here to talk with you the GREAT MEETING IN HEAVEN.”

If you think Sonny was a little off-balance before, you can imagine what he was thinking at this point.

“The what?” he asked.

“The great meeting in heaven! Haven’t you heard about the great meeting in heaven the day after you become part of the grill of a Mack truck?” (Roger always did have a certain way with words!)

“The what?”

“Sonny, I think you just asked that question. Can we sit down? I can see this is going to take a couple minutes.”

And so Roger went on to explain that the day after Sonny’s death, Sonny would be present at a very special meeting in heaven. There would be just three people in that meeting. Sonny would be there. Dad would be there. And Grandpa would be there.

Only one of them was going to be talking – and it wasn’t going to be Sonny. It would be a short meeting. Grandpa would walk up to him and grasp him by both shoulders. He’d look Sonny in the eye and ask him a single question.

Grandpa’s question wouldn’t be about how much money Sonny was worth or how big a house he lived in or about the ski trips in the winter and trips to the beach in the summer. Grandpa wasn’t going to ask Sonny how many wives he had managed to make enemies of during his life and he wouldn’t be asking about the Italian shoes Sonny liked so much.

Sonny began to move forward in his chair. He barely whispered his next question. “What is he going to ask me?”

Slowly Roger told him the question Grandpa would one day pose to Sonny.

“DID – YOU – PASS – THE – BATON?”

Translation? Did you move the business to the next generation or did it become another statistic of failed third generation family businesses?

The blood drained from Sonny’s face. He was speechless. He got the message. They always do if there’s even an ounce of character left.

Roger then explained the purpose of their meeting was to talk about why some people drop the baton.

Sonny was now willing to take as much time as needed. No more arrogance. No more pride. He knew he was going to drop the baton unless something changed. And thinking about being nose-to-nose with grandpa at that great meeting in heaven was unnerving.

The rest of the meeting was routine. Roger and Sonny talked about the reasons third generation businesses fail. They discussed the price tag of getting the business from Sonny to his kids. As we noted in another article, that price tag is probably going to be getting bigger in coming years. With all the money the government is spending right now, how can it not?

Then they talked about where his kids would get the cash to pay those costs and the costs of keeping the business going. Sonny admitted there probably wasn’t going to be much cash lying around. He said he didn’t want his kids to have to sell the business – or the family cabin or other things. He doubted that borrowing would be an attractive alternative. (In fact, given how credit dried up in late 2008 and early 2009, had the meeting happened during that time, Sonny probably would have dismissed borrowing as too speculative an option to consider seriously.)

And then they spoke about life insurance and how it provided cash at the best time possible – when the family needed it.

You may remember our discussion of the 3 Secrets to Effective Communication. One of ’secrets’ was to ask questions. Roger’s story is just another example of that principle. If you’ve had experiences asking questions that had a significant impact, please share them by adding a comment to this story.

Related articles from WalterBristow.com:

1. Grandma’s Legacy
2. The Answer Depends on the Questions You Ask
3. IRS Rules on Taxation From Sale of Life Insurance to Investors
4. Critical Events, Critical Planning in the Life of a Business
5. Employer-Owned Life Insurance — Tax Trap Waiting to Happen?